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Talk:Z Fighters
Android 17 Isn't he to some degree associated with them? He did fight against Cell alongside Piccolo. Even if he was later fused to form Super 17 (without his personal desire), it's important to note that he isn't a villain and he isn't an anti-hero to the purest sense either. He was a traitor as a character, a failure as a model, and associated with the z Fighters to an extent that he didn't cause any chaos while living all those years on Earth even after the Cell Games. I'd rank him a hero if it were up to me, as he was always having doubts about his association with Gero's true mission, and he pretty much hated what he became even as Super 17. I'm a villain fan and strictly a villain fan (and he's no villain). I would categorize him as a "supporter" at the least, where 16 and 18 are. And the fact that he was very much like Piccolo and Vegeta in their betrayal to their initial causes is also evident. If anything, Vegeta goes nuts a few times in Z even while as Majin, on purpose, and he's still listed here. And Piccolo purposely starts wreaking havoc in heaven just to be sent to hell to help Goku. This puts 17 on the same page, considering he's a traitor and a hero in the long run. And the fact that he aided Goku when collecting energy for his spirit bomb against Kid Buu clenches it. He belongs in the same section as the other failures, 16 and 18. - 00:39, 21 May 2009 (UTC) I have to agree that 17 should be under the Z Fighter section, but I don't believe he should be considered a supporter, I think he should be listed under "other members" like 18 and 16. 01:56, 29 July 2009 (UTC) :He doesn't appear as a supporter to the extent as 18 and 16 do. He only aids the Z Fighters briefly and slighty. He is "other" to the extent that his appearance is more brief. - 02:57, 29 July 2009 (UTC) ::I think 17 should be listed in the same category as 18 and 16. 17 killed Gero (2 times, lol), and killed Myuu. Both of those guys were incredibly evil, and if they were left alive think of what else they could have done(baby and cell the 2nd? lol). He tried to kill Cell(16 did also, but neither of them even came close to killing him). And he also helped to kill Buu and super 17. Android 16 tried to kill cell, got blown up, and was never even seen again; but he is on "other members"? No way is that fair. 17 should be on other members with 18 and 16. Or at least add 16 to supporteres. :16 and 17 both belong in supporters, neither are members. - 02:40, 30 July 2009 (UTC) Z Warriors I'm not exactly sure what episode, but I'm sure they were referred to as Z Warriors at least once in the funimation dub (The uncut version)by the announcer during the fight with Nappa, so the claim that the first time was during the android saga is incorrect, someone wanna check on this to verify? 11:04, 26 July 2009 (UTC) Cell Saga Doesn't the Cell Conflict/Saga/Arc count? --KiumaruHamachi 15:34, April 4, 2010 (UTC)KiumaruHamachi Yajirobe Is Yajirobe a PRIMARY member of the z fighters i thnk hewas a suporter or somethink like that --ponds11 19:40, September 27, 2010 (UTC) : The primary members are all those who have actually contributed physically in battles with the Z-Fighters, which Yajirobe did on a few occasions. 19:42, September 27, 2010 (UTC) Oh ya he cut vegeta tail's off --ponds11 19:48, September 27, 2010 (UTC) :And he was trained by Korin and Kami like the others. Jeangabin666 19:50, September 27, 2010 (UTC) And defeted krillin without trying lol --ponds11 19:53, September 27, 2010 (UTC) Qualifications I feel that, the way this page currently is, it is somewhat fan-based rather than encyclopedic. For one, we are saying who is and who is not a primary Z Fighter based on whether or not they physically contribute to a battle, but that's simply too vague. The character of Yajirobe, as much as I love him, and Chaiotzu never really do much. Sure, they do fight in the Saiyan Saga (moreso Yajirobe), but they never do fight again. But, and here's the problem, what about everyone else who fights, even ineffectively? Hercule fights quite a bit, as does Videl. Although they never do anything (nor does Chaiotzu), they do fight and thus should be put in the primary Z Fighters row, right? What about Roshi? He fights multiple times in The World's Strongest and was about to fight in one of the Broly movies. What makes Mr. Buu an "other member"? He has fought a few times. Even Chi-Chi fought in the Lord Slug movie. Nail fought Frieza. Really, and I'm not sure what, but we need a way to differentiate between a Z Fighter and a non-Z Fighter. The current list simply does not work that well. Oh, and does this list only include people present in Z or does it also include those in Dragon Ball? If it is the former, this list needs even more edits. Lastly, Buu is listed twice. Is there a reason for this? 18:03, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :Z fighters are the characters who were selected and/or trained for the main battles: Goku, Piccolo, Krillin, Yamcha, Tien, Chiaotzu and Yajirobe for the Saiyan Saga + Vegeta and Future Trunks during Cell Saga + Goten and Kid Trunks during the Buu Saga. Jeangabin666 18:09, November 22, 2010 (UTC) I understand that, but what stops, say, Pan from being a Z Fighter? She fights a ton in GT, and if we are going to include Uub we gotta include her as well, which is where the problem arises. Because it is nonfactual based, there will be endless deliberation over who is and who is not a Z Fighter. If we had a set way of determining whether someone is or is not a Z Fighter, we could stop all questioning about it. What aboutI simply do not get it. the movies where Roshi fights? Are we going to ignore the movies for this list? Lastly, are we going to include those who fight in the original Dragon Ball or contribute during the original Dragon Ball? 18:15, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :I think that's because she fought in DBGT. Z Fighters are mainly from DBZ: Uub might be in because it is said at the end of DBZ that he is Goku's successor. The group from DB is the Dragon Ball Gang, associate members of the DB Gang might added on this page. Jeangabin666 18:23, November 22, 2010 (UTC) Well, the reason I inquire is because a number of people who only support in DB are on here; namely, Bora, Upa, and Launch. Should we erase them? But disregard Pan as an example. What if I were to say Uub should not be there because he never actually physically contributes to a main fight in Z, but only GT, and thus is not a Z Fighter. See, that's where the problem arises; we need a clear way to decide whether someone is a Z Fighter or not. I'm not certain what it is, but I would personally consider Roshi, Pan, Mr. Satan, and Pikkon Z Fighters. If I were to bring this up, there is no way the community could conclusively decide as to their allegiance. However, if we had a process or a set of questions in order to determine it, then we could figure it out. 18:32, November 22, 2010 (UTC) Okay, I'm going to try and answer this as best as humanly possible. To begin with, while the term "Z-Fighters" or "Earth's Special Forces" is used in every anime dub, there is nowhere that actually goes into dept about who it covers. We have attempted to attribute the membership to those either on screen, or involved in the story, at the points the term is used. You are right, it is somewhat of a subjective term. I know that makes it seem like we should have some guidelines on who is and who is not a Z-Fighter. However, making such a distinction would remove the "encyclopedic" nature of the article, as we, the fans, have come up with our own definitions for the facts. 18:46, November 22, 2010 (UTC) So we are going by fan-made information for this article? (I'm not objecting, moreso wondering.) 18:49, November 22, 2010 (UTC) :Not so much fan-made, as it may be "observed" factual information. 18:51, November 22, 2010 (UTC) Gotcha. Fine distinction there. But should Upa, Bora, and Launch be taken off the page as they don't contribute in Z/GT? 18:58, November 22, 2010 (UTC) The problem is that a lot of people added their favourite characters on this page althought they're not Z fighters. See Olibu, a filler character who wasn't even qualified for the Other World Tournament is listed in. Even Nam, Giran and the Para Brothers were once categorized as Z Fighters supports.. Characters who helped the DB Gang but not the Z Fighters should be listed uder the DB Gang Supporters section, not here. It might be the same for the GT Supporters, but we haven't a page for the GT group. Jeangabin666 19:10, November 22, 2010 (UTC) We oughta make a page for the GT group so as to not confuse people (as I was). The problem with the Dragon Ball Gang article is that it only seems to span the Emperor Pilaf Saga. Does the Dragon Ball Gang include the rest of the original dragon ball anime? I'm supposing yes. I shall go ahead and begin moving the characters that only assisted during Dragon Ball to the Dragon Ball Gang support thing. I'm also going to move Olibu down to support (if he even qualifies for that) as he doesn't belong in the same place as Pan. Any objections? I genuinely think we should make a forum about who is and who is not a Z Fighter/Associate/Support so as to avoid problems like this. 23:54, November 22, 2010 (UTC) Why are Krillin, 18, and Videl listed as New Z Fighters in the Buu Saga? 18, Videl and Krillin didn't really participate in any fighting. They should be listed as supporters. And it says that Krillin was the only human fighter to remain on the Z fighters team after the Cell Games. But Yamcha was still around and if we're going by who fought the main villains then Tien is the only human that remained on the Z-Fighters Team because he's the only one who got to fight Majin Buu.Redbird41 01:57, November 23, 2010 (UTC) actually krillin yamcha videl and 18 all fight super buu or kid buu 01:52, November 23, 2010 (UTC) That was filler. And in that same filler Yamcha also fights Buu and Tien fights him in the manga. Just found out how to make do a signature as this site is very different from the normal wikipedia.Redbird41 01:57, November 23, 2010 (UTC) filler or not its still true 01:58, November 23, 2010 (UTC)